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LiveScience
When the office slacker makes a mistake that could cost them a pay raise — do you truly feel bad, or do you have to work to hide your smile?
If you smiled, you've just experienced schadenfreude, a bit of enjoyment at the misfortunes of others. And now researchers know more about why we experience this seemingly odd emotion. Turns out, it can be a sure way to make you feel better about yourself. It's a self-affirming boost.
"If somebody enjoys the misfortune of others, then there's something in that misfortune that is good for the person," said study researcher Wilco W. van Dijk, adding that it could be due to thinking the other person deserves the misfortune, and so becoming less envious of them or feeling better about one's self.
In the study, van Dijk, of Leiden University in the Netherlands,and his colleagues had 70 undergraduate students (40 women and 30 men) read two interviews about a high-achieving student who was likely to land a great job. Then they read an interview with the student's supervisor revealing that the student had suffered a big setback in his/her studies. Next, they rated their level of agreement with five statements meant to gauge their schadenfreude, such as: "I enjoy[ed] what happened to Marleen/Mark"; "I couldn’t resist a little smile."
Those with low self-esteem (assessed at the study's start) were both more likely to be threatened by the overachieving student, and to experience schadenfreude. However, the researchers found that regardless of self-esteem, those who felt more threatened by this student also felt more schadenfreude.
The researchers thought that perhaps the reason for this was that schadenfreude was self-affirming for these "threatened" individuals.
As a follow-up experiment, the researchers gave about half of the students a self-affirmation boost by shoring up their beliefs about what the students had indicated was a very important value to them, and then asked them to repeat the same interview-reading stint.
Participants with low self-esteem were again more likely to experience schadenfreude, and also more likely to feel threatened by the high-achieving student. However, those who had been self-affirmed were less likely than those who hadn't to reap pleasure when reading about the other student's academic slip.
"I think when you have low self-esteem, you will do almost anything to feel better, and when you're confronted with the misfortune of others," you'll feel schadenfreude, van Dijk told LiveScience. "In this study, if we give people something to affirm their self, then what we found is they have less schadenfreude — they don't need the misfortune of others to feel better anymore."
If you feel an evil sort of glee at the slip-ups of another, are you a bad person? Well, van Dijk says that just about all of us experience schadenfreude at some point in our lives.
"We know that it's very good to feel empathy and sympathy for people, so if you feel schadenfreude without any sympathy or compassion for that other person," that would not be good, van Dijk said. "Our society thrives on compassion and empathy."
While some of us get a kick out of the small blunders of a colleague, say, others experience schadenfreude due to another's grave misfortunes, as van Dijkhas found in research yet to be published.
The current study is detailed in the December 2012 issue of the journal Emotion.
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So, what does science say about fremdscham? I experience that far more frequently.
I have the same experience. I have to cringe and turn away.
Here's some science on the subject.
I experience schadenfreude in regard to people I absolutely can't stand. Pompous jerks who think they're better than the rest of us---and treat me as such. It has absolutely nothing to do with my self-esteem. I genuinely do not like certain people and when they stumble or screw up, I smile. It makes my day. I do not experience schadenfreude with people I like, who are my friends or family. I truly feel badly for them when something unforseen happens to them and leap to see what I can do to help. I'm sure I speak for many people like me. I'm not convinced of the accuracy of this Dutch study.
Nor am I Annie. There is complexity to our feelings and responses. Like you, when a pompous ass gets his comeupance . . . or hers . . . I all but need to sit on my hands to not give the air the victory punch. But when friends, or even neutral parties, take a fall, I feel no joy.
Oh, and my self-esteem is just fine, thanks.
I think you're "right-on" here. Our loved ones come first. But if someone on the outside becomes threatening, our defenses kick in and we hope they are punished for their unwelcome behavior.
Was it schadenfreude when, during WW2, US Navy sailors cheered when they shot down Japanese fighters? At least they did in the movies... and so did the audience! That's war, which means "extreme relief" if you can survive and win.
But if your coworker is denied the same promotion you wanted, yes--misery loves company! And you wouldn't mind if some new, unknown applicant tripped and spilled coffee all over himself!! But all-in-all, the jerks are especially fun to watch being humiliated!!!
This is what I feel for most Americans today.
I remember not long ago when everyone was living the good life, shopping as entertainment, buying bigger McMansions and had nothing but disdain for anyone who, for any reason, couldn't keep up. Referred to them as lazy, whining bums -- a waste of resources.
So.... I just can't suppress a little grin as I think about how the average American is never going to live like that again and is just starting down the path to learning a little humility.
Yeah. I think that's funny.
I have to agree with you Annie. That Dutch research leaves a lot to be desired and does not necessarily represent the whole spectrum of Schadenfreude. And yes, when some jerk arss falls in the hole - I smile and feel good but not because I need a lift. I have all the self esteem I can handle, therefore, I find this research has major flaws. Ha, Ha!
Low self-esteem aside, I always enjoy when cosmic revenge visits itself upon some deserving soul.
I think I only feel it a bit when someone who has done something personally to me has a bit of bad luck but normally no but I think well what goes around comes around . But most people I dont feel that way about in general even coworkers etc. just those who have wronged me in a serious way so most of the time I dont feel schadenfreude towards anyone.
Now I know what to call it when as I pass a fellow motorist pulled over and getting written up and say to myself "Better he than me!" - with a grin, of course.
I've suffered from low self esteem most of my life, and for the most part I would say, no I do not feel this way, I do not like to see bad things happen to people. But I too, believe in Karma and enjoy Comeuppance (SP?) I love when mean sucky people get their just desserts.
If you believe in karma, does that mean we could go beat someone up and assume he deserved it?
Of course, we would then have to answer for our transgression; i.e., what goes around....
We're never getting out of this vicious cycle alive!
Good point, van helsing. Even if karma does truly exist, consciously seeking revenge is certainly not part of it... The only way to end abuse is to let its energy fizzle out on its own, not to fight fire by adding more fire to it... Vicious cycle indeed.
I definitely suffer from low esteem at least part of the time. I do feel jealousy [and fear of criticism or comparison] when I'm around people who I think are smarter than I or people who get better grades, or higher income jobs, etc. But when I hear that such people suffer from some misfortune, I wouldn't say I feel enjoyment but rather a sort of relief, like I don't feel I have to prove myself any more or that I don't have to feel so inadequate. I have this other aspect of me,though, where I do feel an almost religious sense of triumph, or start crying, when I hear or read something in the news where I think that something that was hidden or lied about, finally comes into the open with the truth, something that personally means something to me. Some people do describe me as sounding very arrogant and/or weird. I've been in therapy on and off for years. I've had diagnoses ranging from depression, schizotypal personality, dysthymia, generalized anxiety disorder, Aspergers syndrome,to avoidance personality.
God, I hate it so, when my parents excitedly talk about other families' childrens' superior academic or career achievements! It makes my blood boil. Talk about materialism. lol
In agreement with some of the other posters, sometimes it's not so much schädenfreude so much as it's just "justice."
Sometimes it feels good, like their is balance in the universe, when someone gets what's coming to them. So, apparently, we're supposed to feel compassion and sympathy when bad things happen to bad (or annoying/aggravating/lazy/etc.) people?
Count me as one of the "unfeeling jerks" then.
Schadenfreude is awesome! The perfect word for someone who is full of themselves getting a little comeuppance. Leave it to the Germans to have such a wonderfully descriptive word!
Yes, I sometimes experience schadenfreude and no, I don't have self-esteem issues.
There must be quite a few British people commenters in here. The word 'comeuppance' occurs quite frequently... too often to be a coincidence. 'Comeuppance' is not a word that's in my daily vocabulary, nor have I heard it ever in my life from the mouth of an American...
Really? That's quite odd - I'm as American as they come and I definitely use it and hear it used. Whilst it's not exactly common, it's not uncommon either.
Anyone else feel better about themselves when they noticed this line?
"The current study is detailed in the December 2012 issue of the journal Emotion"
Is this a test?
Does really register with me, but I see your point about the 2012 typo... not my type of humor though. Thanks for sharing.
First off, the article starts by talking about the "office slacker". What normal person wouldn't want to see that type of person fail to get a promotion? After all, you are having to work harder to make up for that lazy person. The article then goes on to talk about feeling schadenfreude for the "misfortunes of others" (i.e., the general population). These are two completely different things here. I would certainly feel this way about the office slacker, but would feel truly badly for someone who deserves the raise, but didn't get it. This article is absurd in the way it is written.
This is clearly why reality TV has taken off in the last decade. The whole schadenfreude effect. We watch those shows to enjoy the unscripted misery of others so that we dont have to think about our own lives. We want the tribe to vote off the bad guy. We want the judge to give the audition harsh criticism. As much as we hate "Jersey Shore", we watch to see them hopefully get kicked out of some place or get made fun of. The networks know this obviously.
I think you are correct about that. Sadism is very popular now as a source of entertainment. Masochism might always be present in conjunction with sadism. As you judge yourself is how you judge others.
It's almost like the phenomenon observed in experiments with rats in a cage that get overpopulated and run out of food -- they resort to cannibalism. That's what this feels like, to me. It's competition at its extreme. It's as if everybody is feeling angry but they express it in very subtle ways, such as schadenfreude.
The reality show trend may have begun with the show 'The Weakest Link', where contestants are humiliated with the words 'You are the weakest link' when they are ejected from the contest.
Another stupid study that states what the whole world already knew.
I have this theory that shame in its various manifestations, is actually a result of mind control. Many people are aware that shame is very powerful in mob/group/tribal situations, such as in the military, or in east asian societies. It's so strong that people commit suicide and suicide is actually accepted socially, even expected, within those communities to do so, for the 'right' reasons (e.g. not conforming to the group's ideals). In the military [and in team sports], they use words like 'glory' and 'honor' and 'duty' and 'pride', but the dark side of this is that there is a great deal of pressure to avoid shame, to live up to certain artificial standards, even if it means going against your own nature and intuition. There is a great deal of peer pressure in such situations, and this is where you see the greatest incidence of phenomena such as bullying.
Shame is something that is learned or trained or conditioned into a person, not something one is born with. So it depends a great deal on social conditioning. Shame promotes secrecy and denial (suppression of individuality), as protective mechanisms to not reveal anything that would cause one to be ousted from the group. The ideals and values and 'personality' of the group is determined by its perceived leader, (e.g. charles manson), who might be worshipped as a god himself. Self-hatred or self-loathing is a common feature among its members. There is probably always some schism in any one member -- a polarization between what is socially accepted and what is not (but they are all still an integral part of the whole person). It might be an essential feature of a pyramidal, hierarchical (and authoritarian) structure of power, rather than a society of equals.
Canadian christian-minister-turned-psychologist Dr. John Bradshaw talked about the destructive and enslaving effects of shame in his TV series 'The Family'.
I've read that a person with low self esteem would tend to feel very uncomfortable around people with high self esteem. It would bother them so much and there might be some projection involved, and they might perceive someone as being arrogant or being extremely irritating. It may be that neither conditions is actually healthy. There may be a third way -- to not actually judge oneself and to be able to be oneself and express oneself no matter what the company or situation. It may be that a person with low or high self esteem always looks for validation or approval from others, while a person who does not judge himself does not need same.
Maybe it's not that a pyramidal hierarchical authoritarian power structure is to blame,but the lack of flexibility within such a structure. Dr. John Bradshaw talked about this also. He said that in a healthy family with every member having healthy ego boundaries, each member of the family could flexibly adopt any role at any given moment -- the mother could play the role of the child, the child could assume the role of parent temporarily. The father could assume the maternal role, etc. etc.. So, maybe it's FLEXIBILITY rather than RIGIDITY of social roles that's the key to a healthy society, rather than strictly everyone being equal or not. I'm not sure. I'll have to think about this further.
Because, you know, nobody is ever literally equal. A woman cannot be a man. A child cannot be an adult. But each individual at whatever age or gender or trait or role or stage of development or evolution, needs to be protected from abuse by everyone else, and needs to have freedom of choice preserved to the degree that it can be. So they all need a universal code of human rights, more so than literal 'equality' which is impossible, and, perhaps, maybe not really practical.
Let me share a story -- I knew this one acquaintance in college, a fellow student in my class who was a Chinese American girl who was majoring in both [bioengineering] and [biochemistry]. I don't remember exactly, but she was an extremely bright girl with a hard work ethic. Anyway, one day, for some reason -- maybe she was not feeling well -- she suddenly said with a hiss, 'I HATE lazy people!' She said it with such emotion. And when I heard this, I thought, 'God, i can see what sort of social conditioning (mind control) this girl received from her parents.' I mean, why feel hatred toward people who aren't harming you or have any malice toward you? Feeling resentment toward others because they don't work as hard as you do, or suffer as much as you do... I guess this girl was not a happy camper, let's say. Some people are like that. Because they are unhappy, they feel that nobody else should be happy either. Live and let live, I say.
I'll admit I have some of the same problems that my father has to a degree. I don't get angry with people for not being productive or smart, but I have to say I have an awful time relaxing. I'm constantly not feeling safe. When I've worked in jobs in the past, I could see I had the potential to become a workaholic sort of, but it's very tiring. And there's no substitute for being able to really relax. I mean, getting drunk on alcohol or smoking up a storm with marajuana or popping psych meds -- these are no substitutes for the real thing. Real quiet, real solitude, real calmness and inner peace. This is what I really want. Not these cheap imitations that come from drugs or other means. And I'm not sure how to get that feeling of inner peace. The closest I get is when I'm sleeping.
*missing paragraph from above:
My father exhibits this same mentality as the Chinese American girl I mentioned above. He cannot stand to see any member of the family doing nothing or relaxing. My mother told me that his 'personality' makes him always feels resentment toward anybody is not doing anything productive, and that his mind is always working on ways to make money [because he always feels insecure]. I remember as a child, my father repeatedly saying how 'laziness' is the worst character flaw a person could have. He would actually get angry when he would see me not studying and reinforce this message with angry shouting and physical punishment. sigh He had such an explosive temper and tendency to become easily violent when he was younger. ugh So unbelievably intolerant. Today he still exhibits some of that unpleasant qualities.
My father has in recent months come down with a severe case of shingles (very painful but not fatal disease). I cannot say I believe in karma but I think it's a natural consequence of his inability to relax (which is also making the shingles harder to heal). The fact is, he's probably just acting out the same behavior his abusive mother treated toward him when he was young. The lack of his awareness of his own psychology and victimization, and his victimization of others, is what is horrible, in my view. It's just horrible, and terrible. I could tell you other horror stories about him and his strange violent tendencies that I've observed eversince I can remember.
My father has not shared much about his own history with me, but he did convey this one story. He said that he was amazed that he is still alive, because he had been in many dangerous situations in his life. He also told me that he was so intent on impressing his peers and teachers [and mother] during his [high school entrance examinations], that he actually went without sleep for six months while studying intensely daily for the national examination. He said doing so ultimately backfired, however, in that it led to some bad health deterioration. He told me it was one of his biggest mistakes in his life. All because he was too ambitious. So you see, too much ambition can be quite destructive.
My father did get into the most prestigious high school in S. Korea, but he did not get as high as score as he wanted on the entrance exam (he wanted to get the absolute top score in all of S. Korea, a truly great honor). He said he ended up making unnecessary mistakes on the exam because was in too much pain as the result of sleep deprivation.
But as great as his accomplishments are in his school years and career (as an engineer), he's intolerant and alienating when it comes to being a parent or friend. I cannot tell you how unpleasant it has been (and still is) to live with him under the same roof for so many years. He's both a super-man and monster at the same time.
In a world where crooks keep getting richer and honest, hard-working people keep getting the shaft of course we feel better when we see someone get what they deserve. It renews our hope that sometimes life can be fair.
Way to go Karma!
Some make themselves feel better by saying, "Well I'd never feel this way about someone I loved, or a 'good' person, only someone who 'got what they deserve'". If we all "got what we deserve", we'd all be in trouble. "Who can say 'I've kept my heart pure?'" Pr 20:9
If someone else deserves it we feel a "little grin" is warranted, but when someone else feels that way towards us (as they inevitably will), they're out-of-line. It's always the "other guy" who deserves it. It's easy to "love your neighbor, and hate your enemy" - everyone does that. The challenge is to love even your enemies. Needless to say, such transcendent love is hard to come by in this world. Peace.
It seems that so often in the social sciences they with new theories that are actually based on more fundamental ideas that are long recognized. For example in this study it can easily be seen that people's power drives and self-centered values on the reasons for wanting to to is superior. While in some cases wanting to hurt another might be a reason, this too goes back to the power drive and self-centered values. I think these are both easily explained in books 4 and 6 of the popular free e-book series at http;//andgulliverreturnss.info.
It seems that so often in the social sciences they with new theories that are actually based on more fundamental ideas that are long recognized. For example in this study it can easily be seen that people's power drives and self-centered values on the reasons for wanting to to is superior. While in some cases wanting to hurt another might be a reason, this too goes back to the power drive and self-centered values. I think these are both easily explained in books 4 and 6 of the popular free e-book series at http;//andgulliverreturnss.info.
It seems that so often in the social sciences they with new theories that are actually based on more fundamental ideas that are long recognized. For example in this study it can easily be seen that people's power drives and self-centered values on the reasons for wanting to to is superior. While in some cases wanting to hurt another might be a reason, this too goes back to the power drive and self-centered values. I think these are both easily explained in books 4 and 6 of the popular free e-book series at http;//andgulliverreturnss.info.
It seems that so often in the social sciences they with new theories that are actually based on more fundamental ideas that are long recognized. For example in this study it can easily be seen that people's power drives and self-centered values on the reasons for wanting to to is superior. While in some cases wanting to hurt another might be a reason, this too goes back to the power drive and self-centered values. I think these are both easily explained in books 4 and 6 of the popular free e-book series at http;//andgulliverreturnss.info.
Oh, great, I thought I'd read Schnitzelbank, and now I've got that song in my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk
(grin away, because you're next.)
Some people are addicted to schadenfreude so much they lie and spread gossip about false misfortunes happening to other people. They start gossip rumors that so-and-so was caught cheating, or caught in a crime, or was acting insane, etc. When the consequences of the rumors damage the life of the victim, the schadenfreude addict gets double returns of schadenfreude. This is the formula for the classic "soap opera witch" person.
My we're a nasty group. I think most of you missed the whole concept of Schadenfreude and actually identified yourselves as judgmental nincompoops.
Schadenfreude means taking malicious delight in another's setback, reversals, losses, and pain. The word "malicious" is key. And you somehow missed the point in the article that those humans who NEED to finger-point, to laugh at another's embarrassment, are revealing their own inadequacies and insecurities.... not your targets.
Bullies are living, breathing Schadenfreude examples. So is hurtful "teasing" ... some insult to another, with the catch words... I was only teasing you. Who the sam hill are we to judge another? We are not psychotherapists; we are not trained to figure out why some one seems greedy, or has this idea they "deserve everything." That btw is quite a generalization "deserve everything?" What kinds of "everything" are you talking about? How hard did they work? What disappointments and setbacks have they had in their lives?
Name-calling ... which proliferates in these comments ... identifies the insecure people from the git go. I feel sorry for them. I sure do not feel superior to them. I'm basically contented with my lot. Dreams keep us going.
And, for me, it's the struggle, the trying for a goal, not so much finally reaching it :) When one gets there, it's over... and usually we look around and say, "what next.?"... it's learning the actions I need for the getting there that means the most to me. Not jealousy of someone else's good fortune. That would be distractive and destructive to me.
I'm serious... when you really resent someone else's lucky break, or "undeserved" advance (and I assure you, you can never know all the facts behind those things); does it make you feel better how you like to gossip with others about that "wicked, undeserving" person?
Gossip is nothing more nor less than witch-hunting... very alive and well in the 21st Century.
@Second: Not quite sure I agree with you on your definition of schädenfreude. (And for those interested in the umlaut, on a PC it's "Alt-0228").
There is literally not translation into the English language. The closest we have is, "The purest joy is the darkest joy," that is, taking pleasure in the misfortune of people you don't like.
It's not malicious, get-in-your-face bullying. It's not direct. It's more along the lines of someone you don't like getting fired, and delighting in the news rather than feeling empathy. It's akin to taking joy because a member of your family that you resent (for example, for "being the favorite") that falls out of good graces and gets told off.
It's simply taking pleasure in another's misfortune -- not necessarily causing it, nor exacerbating it.