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Used woodwind or brass instruments can house some serious germs. How often does your kid clean his or hers?
Sour notes may not be the only thing emanating from your child’s squeaky clarinet or honking trombone, according to a new study just published in General Dentistry. Used woodwinds and brass instruments are also contaminated with enough bacteria and fungi to bring on everything from food poisoning to brain abscesses.
Researchers took cultures from 13 high school band instruments, all from a small, rural town in northeastern Oklahoma, explains lead author Dr. Tom Glass, professor of forensic sciences, pathology and dental medicine and adjunct professor of microbiology at Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences in Tulsa.
“We swabbed the instruments from the mouthpiece end all the way to the bell and we also collected what was expelled from the bell and looked at the instrument cases,” he says. “And we were absolutely shocked by the results.”
A total of 442 different bacteria were taken from 117 different sites on the instruments (which consisted of two clarinets, two oboes, two saxophones, two mellophones, two trombones, two trumpets, and one cornet).
Many of the bacteria were species of Staphylococcus, which can cause staph infections. In addition, 58 molds and 19 yeasts were identified.
“We found that the instrument was basically acting as a reservoir for these germs and had the potential to infect the individual who was playing it,” he says. “What was also disturbing is that some of the instruments hadn’t been played for several months but they had the same group of germs. These germs have a very long shelf life.”
Some of the most commonly found bacteria in the study included Brevibacterium (found in 11 instruments) which can cause corneal infections, food poisoning and endophthalmitis (an inflammation of the internal coats of the eye which can cause loss of vision). Kocuria varians, which causes brain abscess (among other things), was found in nine of the swabbed instruments.
“There are good germs and bad germs, but many of these have the potential to be bad,” says Glass, who for the last 30 years has researched disease-producing germs lurking in common objects such as toothbrushes, dentures, athletic mouth guards and pacifiers. “They have the potential to produce infectious diseases as well as respiratory diseases such as asthma.”
Glass says without proper cleaning, many used musical instruments are basically carriers, passing germs from one person to the next. Unfortunately, the kids who play these borrowed instruments are especially vulnerable, because, he says, “their immune systems aren’t as well-developed as adults.”
“The instruments are sort of like Typhoid Mary,” he says. “They get passed along to one after the other. Our intent is not to prevent people from playing band instruments, but to factor this into the whole perspective of the disease process. People need to ask the question, ‘Do you play a band instrument?’ ‘How long has it been since you’ve cleaned your band instrument?’”
The good news? Breaking down the instrument and wiping all its surfaces once a week can cut back on the germs. But it only decreases the number of germs to an “acceptable level,” says Glass. To completely eradicate the nasty bugs, the instrument needs to be sterilized in a bath of ethylene oxide.
As for other instruments such as drums, guitars, violins, or accordions, Glass says people don’t have to be concerned (at least not in regard to germs).
“A piano is safer,” he says. “It’s the instruments around your mouth. That’s where you have trouble.”
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I'd be concerned if playing those instruments involved breathing in air through them. They all operate by you blowing air through them. Woodwinds get new reeds from time to time and trumpet mouthpieces are easy to clean.
Somebody came up with a novel idea for a study and got funded. Now they had a press release. Good for them. Nothing surprising here. Move along.
Concur with your assessment of someone getting money for a study. What's next, a study to confirm that kindergarden children pick their noses. Shocking discovery! Doesn't OSU, Health Sciences Dept. have better things to spend money on?
You can't help but breathe in a little bit of what's in there. It gets gross.
@HikingStick, while brass instruments have a spit valve to open and blow the spit out of the horn, most reed woodwind instruments don't. The general practice to clear spit out of them is to SUCK it out. Which is why you never let someone borrow your horn. Most band members are taught that (or should be).
You've obviously never played a reed instrument. SeeImRed has it right - you can't exactly pull out the spit rag and run it through the instrument while you're playing, so when you hear the spit start to build up, you suck it out. Gross, but true. It's not the germs on the reed that are so concerning. It's the germs inside the instrument that hitch a ride on the spit train.
I played clarinet for many, many years and the way I was taught to clean it was to use a rag with a stick on the end to push it through. Never was told to suck it in. Blowing around the pads on the keys was another way to keep the saliva out.
I think they're saying while you're playing roy. I know you don't have time to run a rag through it while in concert or on the field
I played clarinet all through jr high and high school and I never sucked the spit out. No, they don't have a spit valve, but they are straight instruments, the saliva just runs out of them.
Danno
Their spending "our" money.
SeeImRed and JustMe: How much saliva do you guys generate?!? Most wind instruments are either straight or large enough that spit doesn't affect their tonal quality (see Saxophone). To generate the amount of spit it would take to "clog" a sax is a disgusting thought.
Yes, and how many kids do I know who have been, are in, or will be in band suffer from illness.......NONE! What a bunch of crapola. I'm the one who must be sick in the head for taking the time to read such malarky.
1. Proper instrument care should be taught and reinforced from the beginning. Not only to cut down on the gross factor but to also maintain a quality instrument (just like regular maintenance on a car.) If a student does not take the time (additional 30 seconds to a minute) with woodwind instruments to swab them out, there are all kinds of gross things that will grow in the instrument. Brass players should also take the time every few weeks to completely clean the instrument out with appropriate cleaning materials to reduce build-up in the instrument that would allow additional germ growth.
2. The "sucking the spit out of the clarinet (or saxophone)" remark is true. While the instrument is cylindrical and most of the spit evaporates or runs out of the instrument, the reed does have a tendency to hold spit on the back side or soak up large amounts of spit and will cause a gurgling sound while playing.
3. Any music educator worth anything knows this information already through common sense! I never give a student an instrument to play without sanitizing the mouthpiece AND giving them instructions on cleaning the instrument BEFORE they play it. Also, before a student turns in a school instrument, the instrument is inspected for condition and cleanliness. You can tell when an instrument has not been cleaned just from looking at. You don't need to swab it and run test on it.
It amazes me that anyone should have been shocked at the quantity of germs on woodwinds. Unless they are taught to clean their instruments properly and then monitored, most kids are not going to bother with it. I do not know how many music teachers instruct their students on how to properly clean their instruments or if they make it part of the daily class. Kids play while they are sick, and some trade instruments. I remember that my brother played clarinet when he was in grade school. It grossed me out to see saliva dripping from the end. Do you think he EVER cleaned it? It certainly wasn't something I ever saw him do.
Band room floors should be bleached daily--and you just know that they are not. Drool rolls right through a clarinet or oboe to the floor, it's the nature of the instrument. Then there's the infamous spit valve release from brass instruments. There's a reason floors go without carpet in classrooms that might be used for instrumental music.
Most of what drips out is condensation (warm breath/cool instrument) not saliva. I pour Listerine antiseptic through my trumpet and horn to sanitize them. I have had my trumpet for thirty years and my horn for twenty eight. It is not that hard to keep them clean. Loaner and rental instruments are a little scary because the users usually don't take good care of them.
When I played ( various ) wind instruments from elementry school all the way through college, I only remember catching something once from someone else's instrument. And we used to swap instruments around all the time, just wiping the mouthpiece off between people. And yes, I did clean my instrument(s) frequently.
I'm surprised that they didn't find dangerous germs on pianos and string instruments. I don't recall myself or anyone else washing their hands before sitting down to play.
Granted, no shocker here. But worth parents noting because in all my years as a musician it amazes me how many players don't clean their horns. Non-player parents should be aware & bug their kids.
Okay, first a mythbuster. Certainly some saliva can enter a wind instrument, but the stuff you see pouring out the bell or "spit" valve is largely condensation, not saliva. This is not to discount the germ thing-- if there were actually that much saliva, the Petri dish would be much worse!
Second, while it's practical to give a brass instrument a bath, such a treatment would necessitate a complete repad of a woodwind. As you can guess, that's not going to happen after each student or season. An argument against used instruments, for sure, but also ample evidence for the need to keep one's own instrument swabbed & cleaned after each use-- especially the mouthpiece, head joint, or bocal, being ground zero for germs. I also dip my reeds & clean my mouthpieces periodically in peroxide (much gentler on them than bleach).
If acquiring a used instrument, your local music store or repair shop can probably provide you with an effective sanitizer which will not harm the instrument. Absent of that, a wipe-down and swab-out with a chlorine-based disinfectant is worth the small chance of affecting the finish. Give particular attention to the mouthpiece (or buy a new one), and where the fingers touch. Be careful-- it's not like cleaning your silver, which has no breakable or bendable moving parts. Unless you know what you're doing, first consult with the band director or repairman.
Not too many things are grosser than a grungy wind instrument. It doesn't have to be that way!
How aboutteaching the kiddos to CLEAN the mouth pieces before and after each use and especially when purchasing a used instrument. I know I'd have never played an instrument if I'd been unable to purchase used.
Kids get exposed to germs all the time. This is how they build up an immune system. Should we shield them from every germ and make them into sick adults draining away on the already stressed health care system? I don't think so!
I certainly don't advocate complete sterility, there is too much of that now with anti-bacterial this and that. But even swabbing the interior of the instrument with a dry cloth would probably be good for it. I would be more concerned about possible mold (growing during the summer of non-use) than cold germs and flu viruses.
Damien- Yes kids do get exposed to germs all the time. But, let me tell you, the strep bacteria is extremely contagious and you can re-infect yourself by not throwing out your toothbursh! It makes sense to me that you should clean the instrument every so often, especially after a strep infection. Just because you feel they should bolster their immune system doesn't mean they should be repeatedly exposing themselves to bacteria and viruses. After all, they do need to stay in school and infections like strep or the flu have no immune buildup.
If the flu has no immune build up then why do people get flu shots?
And my point wasn't to not clean instruments. But if somebody needs an article to tell them that then I don't know what to say.
I would rather expose my kid to germs than to Ethylene Oxide
FYI, from the US department of Labor:
Unfortunately, EtO possesses several physical and health hazards that merit special attention. EtO is both flammable and highly reactive. Acute exposures to EtO gas may result in respiratory irritation and lung injury, headache, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, shortness of breath, and cyanosis. Chronic exposure has been associated with the occurrence of cancer, reproductive effects, mutagenic changes, neurotoxicity, and sensitization.
Link here:
Is that in it's concentrated liquid form, or after it has dried and evaporated off the instrument? I am not expecting the kids to drink the stuff, but if something that harsh has to be used can the faculty use safely outside and after school on a bi-weekly basis?
At least the last 5 minutes of class all shared instruments should be at least be snaked/swabbed before being put away.
I think (hope!) they meant that a professional cleaning service will use EtO to clean and then re-pad the instrument. Then it's sanitary and can be given a daily/per use regimen of cleaning with a cloth and/or peroxide.
First, I'm a clarinet player and have played for over 22 years. Yes, some instruments could have bad things growing on them, but let's think about some other things that students come into contact more often... and often without washing their hands before and after use.
Calculators, pens, pencils (which may often go in mouths and are shared), cell phones... don't forget about dental appliances / retainers that aren't cleaned regularly. There are germs everywhere and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Another stupid study/story that does more to hurt music and the arts in schools than it's helping anyone with anything at all.
Athletes spit out mouthguards on to the ground everywhere at our local high school, inside and out. I've never worn one, I don't know what they are made from, they are bright blue or black and they must be cheap, disposable, one-time use things. Football, soccer and lacrosse players seem to be the most likely culprits. The things are disgusting, and the players should be out there picking up their own mess. I've never seen school grounds littered with saxophone reeds after a football game, so why do the athletes get a pass?
Because they have "someone else" do it FOR them! Either that or they're too sore from practicing that they can't bend over to pick them up. Sure would be a good part of discipline, though, wouldn't it?
Here's the worst part about it: Those mouthguards aren't one-time use. You boil them in hot water and place them in your mouth, bite down, and suck the air out to form fit your own teeth. They do pick them back up off the ground. Then right back in the mouth they go!
I run a music store that rents and sells band and orchestra instruments. Renting an instrument is a good way to provide that instrument to a child who doesn't know yet if they are going to like band. Spending $400-500 on a good quality, student level instrument doesn't always sit well with parents on a budget. Most band directors only want name brand instruments in their programs simply because if something goes wrong with it, local repair shops can service them and get parts from the manufacturers if needed. If the student has a "cheap" instrument (ex: $100 trumpet), more than likely the shop won't be able to service it because they can't get parts for it.
All the rental instruments that we rent have been chemically cleaned by licensed repair technicians using a chemical bath. No one is "exposed" to the chemicals, and the instruments are completely dried out before returning them to the rental stock. Most band directors teach new students how to clean and sanitize their instruments within the first week of having them, and we recommend to new renters to have the instrument professionally cleaned and adjusted at least twice a year.
If parents have questions on cleaning and taking care of their instrument, there are plenty of resources online or simply ask the band director or your local music store professional where you got it from to begin with.
You are absolutely correct! Using or keeping a dirty instrument is exactly the same as using a dirty toothbrush. Ick!
How wonderful to read someone who finally knows what he's talking about! I hope my local music store does the same, Scott.
As for those who complain that researchers misuse grant money in futile research, may I remind you that often research doesn't give the expected results, but sometimes more (or less) interesting ones. Sometimes unexpected results have come out of seemingly trite tests. I don't think the people who did this research were astonished by the results (so no "duh" factor, sorry guys): they were probably expecting a certain amount of germs anyway. That's what you do when you do research: you expect certain results and verify scientifically your hypothesis.
What is interesting here is that these germs seem to have, as they put it, a very long "shelf life", meaning that they linger on objects and can infect others or re-infect the owner months later. It seems very interesting to me, beyond the school bands: imagine what it means on a hospital scale (ever heard of the germs on doctors' ties?), imagine what it means when you have to deal with an epidemic or dangerous mutated bacteria that can linger and re-infect over and over again. I guess then people will be happy that there has been so much "useless" research before to keep us safe later.
And even apparently "anecdotical" research can be a springboard for interesting discoveries of a wider scope.
So, to all the open-minded people here who know better than anybody how to give government grants, I am so very glad that you actually have no say on the matter.
First, that's a flute in the photo, not a clarinet. duh
Second, after reinfecting myself with strep throat several times, the doctor finally realized it was my clarinet reed never drying out, so germs just lingered. From that point forward, I soaked the mouthpiece and reed in Listerine for a half hour each night, just enough to cover the opening without touching the cork.
Third, I made sure to thoroughly swab the instrument after class, then let it dry out in the open case. Fast and easy once it all became a habit, and my wooden clarinet was in such beautiful shape that it sold for more than new after 10 years of use. Oh, and no more strep!
Not a flute, either.
Duh. It's not a flute. Try again.
It's actually a vintage saxophone.
First of all it is not a flute in the picture, it's an old metal clarinet that was probably made in the 1940's.
It could also be a sax. Not positive but definitely a clarinet or sax. If it is a sax, I'm thinking it's a soprano the side keys look too big for a clarinet
I'm going with a sax. I've never seen a clarinet with the fingerpads over the pads themselves. Kind of a give away. I might be wrong, though. Anyone else??
definitely a sax. The key with the missing "pearl" is the "bis" key for the B-flat shortcut.
It is a sax, probably an alto or a soprano.
Definitely a sax. I agree with Roy, the pearl inlays on the pads themselves are pretty much a dead giveaway. Also, the side armature doesn't resemble any clarinet I've ever seen.
Looks more like a saxophone than a flute actually, "duh."
Can you really catch the same germs or strain or whatever of some kind of sickness after already getting over it? Honestly, soaking something in listerine, especially a reed, really isn't a good thing to do.
Most Listerine, if not all, has alcohol in it. Alcohol is BAD FOR WOODEN INSTRUMENTS. Which would make it probably bad for reeds as well. If your clarinet reed never dried out, all you should really have to do is find a good container to store it in and actually remove it from the instrument.
There are special chemicals, but what somebody said band directors teach to their students about cleaning out the instrument is laughable usually. I've never seen a band program where the students are taught how to clean the instrument more than simply spraying this pink safe chemical on shared mouthpieces and reeds during instrument trials at the beginning of the first year. Now, if you're sharing instruments, you should be conscious of what you're coming in contact with, but it's only really necessary to swab out an instrument with a cloth made for the instrument, and if you use a reed, always remove the reed from the mouthpiece and keep it in something that will either help it dry out, or keep allow air to circulate around.
The biggest arguement I have with this is:
"The good news? Breaking down the instrument and wiping all its surfaces once a week can cut back on the germs."
I'm waiting to hear stories of parents reading this and disassembling their child's clarinet/flute/saxophone, and I mean taking off the keys and rods, and needing to be reassembled by a qualified repairman.
Not sure where you are in the country, but ALL the band directors in my area definitely teach the kids how to clean, swab out, and disinfect their instruments. I know this because I'm actively involved with the directors from day one. Whether the kids do it or not...well, that's another story and the parents need to be the ones more vigilant about that when they bring their instruments home.
And unless the parents have the small tools necessary to disassemble the keys and rods from the instrument, I think it was implied to just take the sections apart (neck, barrel, etc) and swab each down and wipe down the keys and bodies.
You're right about the Listerine...not the best thing to soak reeds or anything wooden in. It will simply dry them out quicker, making it easier for them to split and become useless. A reed case with a humidifier or simply a good reed guard and alternating your reeds from day to day will extend their life.
Scott - Another thing that you can get for woodwinds (if I remember correctly) and can't remember the name. I had one for each of my saxophones they looked, for lack of a better term, like a long bunch of pipe cleaners that you pit in your horn while not in use. It was there to absorb any excess moisture you didn't get during the normal cleaning and they could be cleaned as well so they didn't get moldy.
Also as far as reeds some people elect to use synthetic reeds for their saxes and clarinets. I used one when it was extremely cold so I didn't have mine crack during an on-field show. Granted not the same quality of sound but hry it worked.
Wow. What a great article for encouraging more students/parents to stray from the band program. Germs are everywhere. People use the bathroom and don't wash their hands and then you touch that disgusting door handle. Music is a GREAT learning tool! And a HUGE factor is responsibility: to practice, to participate, to take care of your things!!! I'm 20 years old and I'm an active flutist... The number one most important part of my practicing is to thoroughly clean my flute before AND after I practice - inside and out. Not everyone lets their child mistreat their instruments, just be a responsible teacher/parent and teach your kids to take care of their instruments that cost YOU thousands of hard-earned dollars. DUH.
Although a very informative article about what COULD happen in instruments, a lot of which can be prevented. I teach elementary school band and I personally warn my kids about cleaning their instruments. We take an entire class period learning how to clean them- clarinets with the swab, trumpets with their snakes, etc. At the end of the year, my trumpet players learn how to give their trumpets a "bath". A visual of all the "gunk" is enough for them to do it on a regular basis. Although a lot of these used instruments are just that, some used instruments actually wear better through the years (although mostly professional versions), so I wouldn't necessarily sway parents/students away from them. I think it's more important to have common sense; teach how to clean properly, don't share instruments, etc. I even put some of my mouthpieces in my dishwasher and sanitize them! Others boil them on their stove. Good article to use to show my students of all the reasons they need to clean their instruments out!!
Seems people of ALL ages have been playing these instruments for a VERY long time and populations continue to grow so I don't think this is ANYTHING to be alarmed about. Now go practice.
I should tell the band class this... they have a competition tomorrow.... hehehe... >:-)
This is showboating. You can take any item in general used which is not thoroughly washed (as in dishes) on a routine basis and do the same thing. How about that keyboard or better yet, that dicta-phone at work. OR may those cash registers at a store. Door handles might be good. Don't they do this for public restroom seats all the time. Pick an item, find a show-boater microbiologist and and bang - Bob's your Uncle!
Actually, a study has been done on public bathrooms. More bacteria and germs were found on the faucet handles than the commode seats. Like 10X more. A study was also done on home bathrooms. Fecal matter was found on most surfaces, including toothbrushes that are left exposed. When flushing, a mist is created, which carries matter into the air. So, to help prevent - put the lid down before you flush, and keep the brush end of you tooth brush in a cabinet, or closed storage. Brushing your teeth with poop is not cool. But it's ok to comb your hair with it.
There was also a study done that found fecal coliform bacteria on unopened toothbrushes used as controls for the experiment. There is little to no way to be germ free.
i don't mean to be horning in, that blows/this was a bad reed, but it's nothing to s-cough at/ i wood tune in to this thought, it just hits a bad note with me/join the band-wagon!!!!!!!
i'm glad you blew the whistle?
Very punny. But you need to tune your sentence construction so the thoughts band together. A parade of sentences separated by slash marks doesn't march through the paragraph well. Just thought I would make note of those few things, without conducting an investigation of the base problem. No need to trumpet the effects of germs. Probably trying to drum up business for Lysol.
Nice way to toot your own horn!:)
very nice, oldman young eyes... you SCHOOLED me?!
....and once at band camp.....
Results are not a surprise, but interpretation viz. disease is questionable. For instance, how many cases of endophthalmitis occur in the US every year, and further, how many occur in kids exposed to musical instruments? I'm betting that the answer is really, really small. One could argue that by exposing kids to small amounts of these potential pathogens over a long period of time, we are doing them the favor of building up their immunity. Now there's a study - perhaps those of us that were in band and lived to tell about it are really more immune to many diseases than the rest of you losers who played sports or hung out and got stoned!
I'm with you, Tom.
Oh, the irony of this article... I am a band instrument repair tech who is home sick today. I can attest to the "germ factor" in ALL kids' instruments; I am sick more than the average person. What I cannot wrap my brain around is the amount of parents that bring in an instrument they bought used or had given to them that has very obviously not been used in many years and ask me if it plays. Most of them have mold growing on/in them, and when I explain that to them, most parents brush it off. I hear "I want to make sure they are going to stick with it before I put much money into this." I have handed back saxophones with various colors of mold on the pads, visible to anyone looking at the instrument, that smelled like a dank basement; trumpets with black slime in them; the list can go on and on. Not only are the band directors at fault for not teaching the kids any better, so are the parents! Think of it this way- you wouldn't eat off of the same silverware and dishes for months or years on end without washing them, would you? Your kid puts that instruments up to his or her face. Is that a whole lot different?
I feel your pain. I did work on instrument in high school for them. Granted if I noticed I'd be over my head for what ever was wrong it went off to either a local shop or manufacturer. But sometimes when you opened up the instrument you saw what looked like a science experiment gone awry. I sometime put a mask on doing it (and this was back in the 80s)
I met a girl in High School who could really blow the Tuba. I'm sure she is still playing.
David David 1064511: she probably also played the skin flute and you just smiled when she did!!
I say stop all band activity, sports activities, close playgrounds. No holding hands, talking within 10 feet of another. In fact, close all schools and make them attend only via internet. Then again, those germs are at home too. Lets just close civilization.
How about just taking the money spent on these STUPID studies and put it to use finding a cure for cancer, aids, the common cold, etc..